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cost of living 2010 (Read 1735 times)
Topic Description: annual update
brian c
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Show the link to this post cost of living 2010
22. Apr 2010 at 12:36
 
Several people have asked me to e-mail and relist a small survey I did in Jan 2009, the original post follows with the figures updated for 2010, again with the help and contribution of the folks in here.
Take from it what you wish and please comment, so I can update for next year
Original letter
This is a result of reading several so called “cost of living” figures round the internet which I felt were years out of date, and not that detailed, so with the generous help of many people from the forums (most of whom actually live on Crete)  we have produced a more up to date figure.
These numbers are based on a modest standard of living for 2 adults with options below of any EXTRAS you may wish to add or subtract, plus shown at the right hand side further options,  for example,  a larger car or house cost.
Also remember,  as and when you set up a new home anywhere, you will have many one of costs ..i.e. have phone/internet  installed, sky tv installed, a barbeque and garden furniture etc etc etc, so add at least a further 3000 euro on year one costs.
Brian c
                                               
                                                    euro                              
1. RENT/MORTGAGE ……………...……       €       3,600      to       €  7,000      VARIES FROM 2 BED FLAT TO 3 BED HOUSE
2. GROCERIES FOR A YEAR………….       €       5,500      to       €  7,500      depends on your diet, do you grow food etc INC'S TOILETRIES
3. RATES & WATER………….…………..       €          230      ..      MAY BE GOING UP SOON                  
4. PERSONAL CARE ……………………….       €       1,500      ..       DENTIST/PRESCRIPTIONS/HAIRCUTS ETC            
5. ELECTRICITY…………….…………...…       €          800      ..       PLUS, DEPENDANT ON USE                  
6. OIL/WOOD/HEATING/……………...       €          800      ..       2/3 BED HOUSE WOULD BE NEARER 1000 EURO      
7. TV LICENCE …………………………….       €             51      ..      ………       WHETHER YOU HAVE A TV OR NOT      
8. INTERNET&PHONE…….……………...       €          600      ..      PHONE AND INTERNET OFTEN COME AS A PACKAGE DEAL
9. CLOTHING………………………………….       €          560      ..      ………       I WISH MY WIFE WOULD READ THIS      
10. EMERGENCY /MAINTENANCE…       €          700             REPLACEMENT WASHING MACHINE/LEAKING ROOF ETC ETC?
                                                           €  14,341        TOTAL OF ITEMS 1 TO 10 THAT ARE PRIORITIES      
                              EXTRAS                                                
ENTERTAINMENT(i.e.eating out) ....       €       4,200      ..        EATING OUT TWICE A WEEK AT 20 EURO A HEAD      
CAR COST/REPAYMENTS YEARLY .       €       1,600      ..      ……….       DEPENDS ON CAR OF COURSE            
One CAR FUEL FOR A YEAR………….       €       1,500      ..      ……….       DEPENDS ON MILAGE            
CAR INSURANCE & road tax………..       €          650      to        €  1,150        DEPENDANT ON CAR SIZE            
INSURANCE LIFE……………………….….       €          700                                          
INSURANCE BUILDING…………………       €          300                                          
INSURANCE CONTENTS……………….       €          170                                          
INSURANCE HEALTH…………………….       €       2,500      …       FOR 2 PEOPLE, ..or do you qualify for nat health/ika
SKY TELEVISION…………………….…….       €          400      ..       not sure on this price for sky?                  
HOLIDAYS/FLIGHTS TO BRITAIN...….. €       2,200                                          
PET /FOOD & HEALTH CARE ........       €       1,000                                          
POOL MAINTENANCE?..................       €       1,000      ..      or 100 euro for the chemicals if you do it yourself                                    
                                               
GRAND TOTAL FOR EVERYTHING       €    30,561             ..      PLUS ONE OF SET UP COSTS OF AT LEAST 3000

I'm betting this is not as cheap as most of us thought, but of course not everyone has the same requirements, and once there you can find cheaper ways to do some of the things, i.e learning the cheaper and better places to shop and eat
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« Last Edit: 23. Apr 2010 at 00:53 by brian c »  
 
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latsida
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Show the link to this post Re: cost of living 2010
Reply #1 - 22. Apr 2010 at 13:22
 
Sorry Brian C but I do not recognise any of these figures and we do not stint our money go out a lot and have never consciously worried about the cost.How did you collate these new figures?
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Show the link to this post Re: cost of living 2010
Reply #2 - 22. Apr 2010 at 13:55
 
I have asked some of my Greek friends (couples) and the concensus seems to be that around €1500 per month gives them a reasonable standard of living, but that excludes rent/mortgage; return flights to UK; pool costs and health insurance.  It does include running a small car, but not the initial purchase.
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Show the link to this post Re: cost of living 2010
Reply #3 - 22. Apr 2010 at 14:12
 
Brian,

Your revised figures look a lot more realistic to me, but then much depends on the size of house, car(s), how many times you eat out etc.

For example, run a car with a 2 litre engine and your road tax this year would have been 485 euros + a special (supposedly one off) tax of 150 euros!

We are too young - it's nice to write that - to get free medical help here and our private insurance is 2700 euros per year.

Our electricity bill is horrendous - as previously discussed on this forum - and works out at around 1000 euros per quarter.  I'm still not sure why this is!!

Jon
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« Last Edit: 22. Apr 2010 at 15:57 by Topdriller »  

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Reply #4 - 22. Apr 2010 at 15:32
 
Is that just the electricity part Jon,as you know the rates ,ERT are itemised separately.
keep an eye on your meter readings maybe do a daily check and see when you consume the most.then you can isolate the culprits .
we only use our air con in the very hot months, and then only when we are in the room, but that can be expensive.
Do you have solar water? if not that would save money.
cook outside with a BBQ and turn up your fridge a couple of degs.
I expect you know all this but your bills are very extreme
Do you have your pool pump on unnecessarily?
cannot think of anything else  Undecided
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Show the link to this post Re: cost of living 2010
Reply #5 - 22. Apr 2010 at 16:57
 
Christine,

We've restricted the pool pump running over the past three years and most lights are now the energy saving variety.  We do have solar panels on the roof and hot / free water for most of the year.

And yes, the other costs / taxes etc. are included in the 1000 euros per quarter figure.  I really need to go see my accountant and find out if there's anything we can do.  It might just be something as dumb as a faulty meter!!

Jon
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latsida
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Show the link to this post Re: cost of living 2010
Reply #6 - 22. Apr 2010 at 17:01
 
Have you got any near neighbours who could be poaching from your supply Kiss
I know its a stupid question but hope you are not still on builders electric?
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brian c
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Show the link to this post Re: cost of living 2010
Reply #7 - 22. Apr 2010 at 17:42
 
Hi latsida Smiley
The figures are from various folks that live on Crete and I've entered an average ..i.e. topdriller mentioned in the above post his health insurance is 2700 euro others have mentioned a bit less so I submitted 2500 euro and similar with most other items, but not everyone needs health insurance or drives a car or has pets, pool, eat out twice a week etc etc,    also Jons electricity at 4000 euro a year scares me Smiley but a few people were around the 600 to 1000 euro so I've entered 800 euro, they are all just average examples given to me by people living on the island and you take from the list what you use.
To be fair I've erred slightly on the high side but only very slightly, better to find you have extra money than not enough Smiley
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Reply #8 - 22. Apr 2010 at 18:11
 
Hi BrianC
thanks for the explanation Smiley
  TD says that the 4K includes council tax, ERT and of course VAT so it is not just the Electricity, which makes more sense.
my total bill a year for all these is about 700 so within your scale
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« Last Edit: 22. Apr 2010 at 18:16 by latsida »  
 
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Reply #9 - 23. Apr 2010 at 00:36
 
Brian C,

I am curious as to where the figure of 1,000 Euros for pool maintenance came from.

We have a 25 square meter pool and last year I spent just over 100 Euros on maintaining it! (10 Kilos of chlorine tablets @ 42 Euros, I big container of hydrochloric acid @ 40 Euros, a container of algicide @ around 12 Euros and a new net to collect leaves @ 8 Euros).

I suspect that the figure you give of 1,000 Euros came from the main site. I have queried this in the past but recieved no answer. Perhaps somebody could enlighten me?

John
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brian c
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Reply #10 - 23. Apr 2010 at 00:49
 
Hi RIC  Smiley
Getting someone in to do it for you  Smiley and possibley any pump maintenance ?? ...... like I said   its info that I've been fed and gathered. and any info from folks like yourself with firsthand experience helps to make it more accurate for later updates
So for those reading this ..there is another saving of 8 or 900 euro if you do your own maintenance and add chemicals. Smiley
Thanks RIC, I will update the above list accordingly.

p.s. never having owned a pool I have no idea whats involved Smiley
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« Last Edit: 23. Apr 2010 at 00:56 by brian c »  
 
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Reply #11 - 23. Apr 2010 at 09:50
 
Brian,

I'd concur with John's do the maintenance yourself pool estimates i.e. we have a 90 sqm pool and now do all the weekly maintenance ourselves.  Our 3-1 chlorine / flock tablet costs are 38 euros per 10 kilo tub and we probably go through a tub every 8- 10 weeks.  We decided not to go down the algicide route this winter, just kept the pumps running and using the tablets, but the cost of electricity would have to be factored into your ongoing pool costs.

You also have to factor in the cost of replacing the water every two or so years.  We now change every two years having had the water tested by the professionals last year.  I'm guessing this adds 200 euros to our water bill every time we have to refill.  I'm not sure if it would be cheaper to call in a water bowser.

It's definitely much cheaper to maintain a pool if you do it yourself - we were paying 10 euros an hour in the early days - and once you learn the basics it's not hard to do and gives you an hour or two every week of soul searching time when "hoovering" the bottom. 

It's also cheaper going forward if you have tiles because friends of ours have to repaint their pool every year or two and this is both time consuming (scraping off the flaking paint and then repainting) and the paint is not cheap.

I've had one of the pumps repaired in the three years we've lived here full time and that cost around 150 euros. I've also had to replace one of the leaf hoppers in the pump which was around 20-30 euros.

When we used a pool man - who was excellent by the way - we were paying around 700- 800 euros a year all in but still had to pay for any repairs to pumps, electricity and water costs etc. so your 1000 euro estimate would probably be spot on - at least for us - if you don't do the donkey work yourself.

Jon
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Reply #12 - 23. Apr 2010 at 14:25
 
I do not have a pool here but had an outside one in the UK for 20 years.
did all the testing and treatments ourselves.
the pool was only completely emptied twice if I remember I just dropped down the level added a shock dose of chlorine and then hoovered to waste after a few days.
I used the Blue Crystal Alpha/Omega system which is also an over wintering solution,it is completely safe and you can swim in the pool directly after using it.
I also kept the ph levels in check and the chlorine levels.I probably spent the same amount as RIC does here every year.
never had a problem with the pump and only had to change the filter sand.
we had a heat exchanger to heat the pool, in the early and late months ,on the same circuit as our hot water supply so it was relatively inexpensive to heat the pool.
happy days Smiley
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Reply #13 - 23. Apr 2010 at 16:34
 
I notice that Brian has amortized the cost of buying a car at 1,600 Euros per year. As a car is capital expenditure, (I guess few Brits here take out HP agreements) he is quite correct to allocate a yearly cost to it even though the cash goes out in one lump.

Prompted by Brian's post "in another place", can I suggest that this principle could be applied to other things?

We bought our house here six years ago, when property was still relatively cheap and a Euro was 64 pence. Last summer I was approached by a local builder/property agent who asked if I wanted to sell my house as he had a buyer looking for a property exactly like mine. I asked what sort of price he had in mind and was told that he would offer just over double what I had paid (with the Euro then at 90 pence plus).

Now if Brian is going to amortize the cost of a car, surely he should also amortize the increase in property values. If he did this I would find that I have lived here for nothing as the increase in value of my house has exceeded my living costs.

If you are doing proper accounts and not just the cost of living you have to re-value your assets annually to give a true picture. ie you produce a balance sheet as well as doing cost analys.

As a matter of interest my old house in the UK is currently up for sale. They are asking £10,000 LESS than I sold it for five years ago and it has been on the market for over 6 months.

I have to add that my home in Crete is not for sale. I did not buy it as an investment. I bought it because I wanted to live in it and I will stay here until I am too old to struggle up the hill. When the time comes to move I don't care how much it is worth as long as I can get enough for it to buy a ground floor apartment in town.

John
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Reply #14 - 23. Apr 2010 at 17:06
 
I have become out of touch with property prices in Akrotiri recently and it is becoming even more confusing because of Greece's current crisis.  Does anyone have any figures which indicate the shift in property values, say over the last 3 years?

Peter
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